Hey DGC, so my problem I’m having is getting true accurate information. Looking something up online can be helpful but also can point you in the complete wrong direction. That being said I have been trying to figure out what am I suppose to be actually doing when it comes to watering and giving nutrients to my plants. I use the whole roots organics liquid nutrient line. It is certified by the cdfa which I was told by my grow store that it is one of the harder ones to get for being organic. I don’t know but anyways, what I usually do when it comes to nute days I mix my nutes in tap water that’s been sitting for at least 48 hours and then I aerate it for 24 hours and pH it to 6.0 then go and water my plants with that until I get no more then a 20% run off from what I put into the fabric pot ( in the process to switching to radicle bags I have a couple now they kick ass!!!). Then I usually measure my pH every time I water/nute/or Recharge. I use to check my ppm but stopped because it was pointless I was seeing like 6000 ppm and up just craziness I thought and the plants looked fine. But that brings me to the reason I’m writing this.
Do I need to be watering until runoff every time I go to water or feed my plants?
Do I need to be checking my p.h. of my runoff at all?
Do i need to even p.h. my water before i go to water. ( my p.h. is 9.5. Out the tap but after i let it sit for a couple days it drops to about 7.5-7.8 but I’ve seen it go to like 6.7).
I’ve been using the feeding schedule they have and I’ve heard dude say and other people that it’s really hard to burn plants being organic. I see nute burn on the tips of me leaves all the time. I just want to make sure I’m doing this the way its suppose to be done. If you need any more information just let me know thanks.
What’s the correct way I should be doing all this? Please if someone could help I really would appreciate it.
– Mr. StankDank BasementGrower
I was a fan, now just a user, of Roots Organics line. First thing…cut back on your feeding. 1/4 to 1/2 their “suggestions” is more than enough if your plants are growing inches every day. 2nd, PPM MATTERS…you are creating a hostile environment for your roots. 3rd. Without knowing your plant size to soil mass any advice cannot be solid. If the plant is using all the water, and nutes, then runoff is not as important (mini-flush). If your soil mass is more than it should be then it is just building up the nutes it did not use. I daily “chased” every symptom from my overfeeding and over-watering until I stopped feeding and used Distilled water from the store for a couple of weeks. Then it took off growing….like a weed! Your LIGHT & CO2 drives plant growth. Your PH allows the plants to pull what it needs from the soil successfully. Those three things, IMO, make up 80% of growing and the nutes are part of the remaining 20% and behind humidity too. I don’t trust advice from anyone who says nutes are the most important part of growing. Go grab a couple of gallons of distilled water and for the next few weeks use only it with recharge. Good Luck!
Yeah that’s what I thought you are suppose to do if your using salts and feeding your plants directly not feeding the soil. Isn’t that what I’m doing and organics is suppose to be is feeding the soil not the plant. Anyways I was told not to even bother with ppm if its organic. The other problem I have had and still do have is high p.h. no matter what I do. If i put just 5.0 p.h.ed water in for the next two weeks it’s still doesnt change my p.h. it’s always in the high high 7s even at 8.1 at times. This is the reason of me being so frustrated no matter what I do I cant get my p.h. down and my plants seem to be fine looking though.
Oh sorry I missed a part of your question. I have a few in my veg tent that I’m growing now there is 4plants in there now all different ages and pot sizes. I have a MAC clone in a one gal I have a super skunk femanized photo in a one gal that’s probably a lil over a month old and I have a monster crop clone in a 2gal pot that’s been alive for like 4months and I have a super kush in a 3gal radicle bag that’s a lil over 2 months old. I hope this helps.
Jmystro put up one great nute guide. https://www.dudegrows.com/mystros-guide-to-cannabis-nutrition/ so check it out and see if his guide might help.
Saying that it does seem you may be running a little too hot maybe so you might try dialing it back slowly until you find the right nute load for the strain you are growing. Also, ph matters mainly if you don’t use microbes and use liquid nutes. When people say you can’t burn with organics they are not right. Blood meal will torch plants if top dressed for example, the idea with organics is balance, feeding the soil microbes and letting those feed the plants. If you like organics, Soup is a great resource also.
Lots of ways to do it, I like building a good soil and just plain water but we all do it differently. Poundhouse recipe (https://www.dudegrows.com/pound-house-super-soil-recipe/) is also worth checking out too as that can be used along with straight water (mine at the tap is 6.8-7 so you might have to adjust your waters ph if it truly is 9.5) and you can get awesome results. Coots mix, subcool’s supersoil both I’ve run in case liquid nutes mess with you.
Your ph pen may need calibration – you shouldn’t get water with a ph that high out of your tap I don’t believe. That’s nearly like detergent at 9.5.
I’ve never used that line before. But I’ve never heard of aerating a liquid nutrient for 24 hours. Was that suggested by your grow store?
Is there confusion between that and a compost tea brew? As Scotty says let’s learn in public. It just seems odd to prepare the feeding that way.
I’ve heard of a nutrient tea. But my understanding is that’s the same process using dry organic amendments.
Yeah in my feeding chart it recommends that I aerate the nuits for 24hours to raise p.h. to more appropriate range. It says it’s not necessary but I do it.
All this makes me so frustrated, I just want to know why my plants wont go down in p.h. and how I’m suppose to use these nuits and exactly what im suppose to be doing with my situation.
In organics, PH is a bit less of a concern, as microbes can help plants absorb nutrients at a broader range of ph.As long as it’s 5-7, you should be fine. Microbes prefer a higher PH however, and you’ll get the most benefit from 6.5-7PH. I used RO liquid line for an entire grow, and I can honestly say I wouldn’t recommend it to somebody new. PPM definitely matters, regardless of whether or not you’re using organics. Organic nutrients do not really have much ppm to them before they’re broken down by microbes, but once they’re broken down, they’re chemically identical to salt nutrients. Measuring runoff is definitely important, as it tells you how much salt based nutrients, or nutrients that your plants can use are available in your medium. If the PPMs is too high, your plants will burn. The only thing it’s not good at telling you is if there’s enough nutrients available. If you add a bunch of organic nutrients, they won’t register as PPMs until the microbes break it down. Therefore, just because your PPMs are low, that doesn’t mean you should feed again, but if they’re too high, it definitely means you should flush. Also, I really would only recommend using Buddha grow, bloom, the trinity, and maybe their bloom booster. The ancient amber and extreme serene are just kelp and molasses, which is in recharge. Also their liquid nutrients are very high in guano, which has a lot of heavy metals. I would suggest switching to a dry nutrient like Dr Earth, Down to Earth, or even Roots Organics uprising grow/bloom/foundation. I can’t recommend it because I’ve never used it, but for next time I definitely have my eye on Geoflora’s 2 part dry amendments. You just top dress every 2 weeks, everything’s in good ratios, and compost teas can cover any hole’s in nutrition. Roots organics is really bad at making you think you need to buy everything, and their feeding charts will waste a lot of your money, and possibly harm your plants.
If you really want to understand plant nutrition, here you go:
https://www.dudegrows.com/mystros-guide-to-cannabis-nutrition/
You don’t have to understand plant nutrition, however, to use a line of formulated nutrients. They all come with a schedule, which is given in specific ratios. So, keep those ratios at whatever modified dose you want to give your plants. Your plants will tell you if they’re getting enough or too much.
Though a TDS meter won’t pick up some or all organic inputs in your nutrient brand, it is still a good idea to measure your runoff ppm to get an idea of what’s going on this the soil. It won’t be exact, but a good representation. A more accurate way would be to do a slurry test.
Whether you pH your water or not depends on the condition of your water source and the ingredients in your medium. A soil with pH buffers, such as lime, will help maintain the correct range. The way pH is thrown off in soil is usually by overfeeding or using too much calcium carbonate, which is found in your tap water and in most calmag products. A buildup of pH effecting minerals will, well…effect pH. There’s too much more to type about pH, but I don’t think it’s really relevant to dig into that.
I suggest getting you plain water pH stabilized between 6 & 7 then using that to mix your nutrients. Not that it’s always necessary to do so, but it will remove some variables I think.
And as you said, the plants look fine…. that speaks more than any numbers.
“They all come with a schedule, which is given in specific ratios. So, keep those ratios at whatever modified dose you want to give your plants.”
I have been following the company’s feeding schedule.
The reason why I stopped with the TDS pen is when I mix my nuits the way they say at that week of growth, it will be like 2700ppms for like week 2of flower just for an example. It all differs depending on what week your mixing up the nuits for and what stage your at veg or flowering. Then when I was checking the runoff it was at like 6000. With this run I’m doing now I was at like 4000ppms in veg so I flushed them and put them in flower. Then the second week of flower i was having nitrogen differences and more. So i decided I’m done with testing ppm and scotty real asked or mentioned he didn’t no why I was measuring my runoff with organics on the episode I was on of grow talk like 10 shows ago titled high p.h. or p.h. problems. So I just stopped testing it but I decided that before scotty real said something.
I see you mentioned lime for a p.h. buffer I was thinking of adding that to my mix so it will stay around the low 7s for a p.h. I just havnt got around to getting any.
Also you said i should let my water stabilize before using it. I definitely do i let it sit for 48hours minimum sometimes longer and the p.h. goes down to high 6s low 7s from being in the mid 9s straight from tap. The ppms stay the same basically though hanging around 50 or so ppms.
Thank you and everyone else who is commenting on this and trying to help.
How are you caring for your pens? Do they ever get dry and do you calibrate them?
What model do you have that gives readings above 2000? Just curious.
I have the apera instruments ph20 and tds20 pens I keep the TDs pen dry and the ph pen in storage solution and always recalibrate every few weeks. Not so much with the TDS pen though
I never heard of the BPD sensor or whatever it was called. I seen that it can be kept dry, but your readings don’t carry much weight unless you calibrate it and take a new reading. Obviously the reading you got were not accurate, I wouldn’t trust that device.
You can get away with not having a way to check ppm, but when you have a problem to diagnose, that’s one thing you can’t cancel out, so it’s a disadvantage.
1. Bottled organics are often treated more like synthetic as they have often been treated or stabilized to be more plant available. Unlike organic material that needs time to be broken down.
2. Watering to runoff is key to ensure the medium has been evenly watered. No chance of dry or stagnant spots.
3. Also trying a feed feed water program can help avoid buildup.
4. Usually starting at half strength from what a nutrient manufacturer suggests is a good thing to start with. You can always bump it next feeding.
5. Tap water at 50ppm sounds good. I would let nutrients sit for a bit before phing as that dissolved air is going to dissipate and change the ph. Im thinking with the worm casting and natural microbes in the air your making a nutrient tea of sorts and making more of the amendments plant available(should up the ppm to check this is happening) by aerating it for the 24hrs. Also I would shoot more for a ph of 6.5 when adjusting. If your using roots organic soil they don’t add a buffer like lime, dolomite lime, or oyster shell flour. This will prevent ph from dropping to low.
6. Runoff gives you an idea what’s going on in your root zone but not the real picture. It’s good to keep an eye on but necessary to check every watering. Also a good thing to help diagnose issues.
Thank you for that. I appreciate everything everyone is doing to try and help me.
For number 2 that is something I do already every watering/feeding.
Number 3, when it comes to my veg tent. My watering schedule is nuits, water with recharge then water with just root organics trinity but only like 10ml in two gallons of water. Then all over again so I water my veg plants almost every 2-3days. I just started the recharge last week. I use to water with molasses the days that was just plain water.
Number 4, I’m going to start trying just the 5ml a gallon feeding program and see if that changes things also.
Number 5, I will definitely check my ppms next time I do that. Also yes I am using root organics 707blend also. You said NOT to use dolomite lime cuz it will keep my p.h. from dropping to low. My p.h. is super high and it always rises more and more every time I check my run off every watering/feeding. I have been p.h.ing all my inputs before watering to 5.9 due to the fact that it keeps rising and I thought if you was to water at a low p.h. continuously everytime it would drop it slowly. I’ve even not p.h.ed after mixing my nuits just to see if after testing the runoff if it would change, but nope it didnt. Stayed the same as what it was the last runoff test.
WHAT AM I DOING WRONG FOR MY P.H. TO STAY IN THE HIGH 7S
I’ve seen my p.h. at 8.5 in flower and it wont go down! Should I be adding sulfur to my soil and let it sit for a couple months or something? Would that work, idk much I’ve only been growing indoors for like a year and a half. Trying to learn more and more every day. This is all i do besides work. My fiance gets annoyed sometimes but loves the weed I grow haha.
Well thank you for everything.
I don’t know what you mean by that last message I have a cheap vivosun TDS pen and it reads the same as my apera instruments TDS20. It has like a 100ppm differance like if its 1000ppm the other one reads 1100ppm. I no it’s not my pen and I paid 60bucks for that TDS pen same with my p.h. pen. They compare to the bluelab pens if you heard of them
When you said it read 6000 or whatever it was that lead to believe it’s giving false reading. Your plants would be dying if that were the case.
Try a slurry test and see what you get.
Looks like that meter only reads from 0 to 1000ppm I’m thinking your reading is more like 600ppm?
https://aperainst.com/tds20-value-pocket-tds-tester-meter
I saw that too…what’s the other part that says it reads to 10000 ppm. It said..I forget…ppd? Some shit….
PPT 10.0……it said in another spec (10000ppm).
Parts per trillion. There’s gotta me a button to change to a standard ppm on that thing.
Parts per thousand lol my mind went to trillion too. So 10ppt is 10000ppm. So it reads 6ppt on your meter?
Oh yeah that makes more sense haha.
I am confused lol. I wish we could attach pictures after the fact of a post. Anyways I have two ppm meters one is a cheap vivosun and i have the 342 calibration fluid for it i calibrated it then calibrated my tds20 pen then I went and took my run off readings of last night. The two pens read pretty close to each other Ill just average the two. My TDS 20 pen does read different as in it says like 1.25 meaning 1250ppms. But yeah I don’t know how to take care of this. What am I suppose to do. My veg plants look great. I have barely any tip burn and it’s only on the bottom parts of the plants usually.
Tip burn usually starts toward the top of plants. Only way to update would be make a new post and let jmystro know to add the the info or pictures to this post. Im thinking about the high ph. I got it backwards with the ph, thought low issue. I would definitely not go over 1000ppm even if it’s organic. Maybe peak flower hitting up to 1500ppm. Just sounds pretty crazy amounts of nutrients.
It does sound crazy doesnt it. It’s just weird why my p.H. is out of wack. So since you thought I was talking about low p.H. do you think it would be wise to use dolomite lime to try and bring my p.H. closer to 7.0 then 8 something?
Thanks for letting me know about the jmystro thing, I’ve been super busy working and trying to keep up with my normal life haha so I havnt been on line much to keep up on the post.
Some great advice above. I’ll add my experience with these nutrients. When I first stared using these bottled “organics” I wanted to go by the book and measure everything. I soon realized that my ppm was all over the place and really wasn’t telling me as much as it was with synthetics. I decided to put down that pen and listen to the plant. Ultimately, what matters is your plants health. You have to be attentive to how it reacts and always remember that less is more . I never water to run off. This is a waste of water and nutrients. If you cut down on your feed and give your plant what it needs instead of what the nutrient manufacturer puts on a label then you won’t over feed and you will have no need to by wasteful. However, do pay attention to the ratios of bloom to grow the manufacturer suggests. I decided that ultimately this was too much of a fuss. I switched to biolive for an almost water and recharge only grow. My only bottles are Biocozyme and Jump start (which I can also eliminate, but I just find them convenient). I also foliar Aloe and once a week feed coconut from build a soil. This has made my life and my growing so much more compatible.
That’s what I’m going to do know on. I’m going to cut my nutrients down and pay attention to the plant more and just make sure I keep p.H.ing my water/nuits at 6.0 -6.2 and go from there I was also going to see if measuring my ppms of my nuits before I water. Make sure I stay under 700 in veg and stay around 1200-1500 in flower. See if that makes a differance. I still have problems with my p.H. being high but the plants look good still so whatever I guess. I’m getting pretty sick of seeing it so damn high. But i do see it effects the plants a little because my leaves are sometimes twisty and curled and just look bad. I know that’s because of high p.H. but like I said I cant get it to go down. I’ve tried in the past to even water at like 4.0 for a few weeks and still it didnt drop, maybe by .1 or. 2 but that’s it. Not whole points like I want (1.0).
Yeah there is alot of good advice above in the comments but in still unclear what I should be doing with taking care of my high p.H. and how exactly I should be using my nuits. I just said though I think I’m going to go the route of what I said above but what I was saying there isn’t a clear way of how I should be watering or nuiting my plants. But yeah my flower plants are almost done and I’m about to put my next batch in. Still I’m having trouble with those plants ppms and p.H. being out of wack too like 3000s and 7.4 p.H.
I did a test though with my soil last night cuz I’m suppose to be transplanting fresh clones today and the soil was at 6.2 p.H. and 1000ppms with no plant in the cup just soil. So that’s a start I guess I’m just going to really pay attention to what happens to the p.H. and ppms as it grows. Cant wait to start from the very beginning knowing my p.H. and ppms from the start.
I see so much confusion going on with new growers it has to be making this experience not as enjoyable as it can and should be. I’ve Been growing commercial scale for over 30 years and I am constantly setting up my buddies with small home grows so that they can grow dank. I’m not a huge fan of salts but for the beginner I recommend getting Advanced nutrients sensi grow and sensi bloom two part nutrients. It’s ph perfect and allows you to grow straight chronic with no hassles. Do not worry about ph, ppm or EC until you flush(I’ll explain later). Don’t worry about how much run off or if any . Allow your plants to dry out a little between waterings, feed every time you water at 3/4 strength of what’s on the directions. Make sure you have a good draining soil. Whatever soil you buy add 1 cup of perlite to every gallon of soil you use. Better for it to drain more easily than not enough. That’s where over watering comes into play. If it doesn’t drain well you will drowned your plants. Your just keeping that plants moist. I promise 100000000% if you use ph perfect nutes from Advanced nutes you will grow dank everytime. Don’t worry about going crazy with all the supplements except for Bid bud every other watering . 10 days before harvest start flushing with straight water ph’d at 6.3 to 6.5 but I personally like 6.3. Just water when they need it with the clean water and the last 3 days water until you have run a good run off. That last 10 days you will see your leaves start to yellow and hopefully even start curling up and dying. Since the plants are using what nutes are left in the soil it will start pulling energy from the leaves. Don’t buy into flushing products or other gimmicks. In my opinion the flush is the most important part of growing. I actually flush at 20 days but it’s a little more complicated as I am slowly taking away nutes and adding certain other products but the difference between my end product and yours will be hardly noticeable if at all. After 30 yrs of growing you will build a recipe and stick with it. I have two different recipes, One for OG’s and one for everything else. But don’t worry about that just use the advanced nutrients to part Sensi line and I promise you will have beautiful happy plants and end up with some fire smoke.
Thanks for the reply and the long comment but I do not like advanced nutrients. Thank you but no thank you. I’m trying to learn too, not just grow something to smoke. Idk I just didnt like there line and I’m looking to gain different knowledge about growing then what advanced has to offer. Like I said thank you though. When I use up all my bottled nuits I’m going to switch to actual organic dry amendments/nutrients. But that wont be for an other year at least with all the nuits I have now. I want to stay on the organic side as much as possible.